Comments on: Tales From the Frontier of Expat Life: On Being An American Woman In Thailand http://matadornetwork.com/abroad/tales-from-the-frontier-of-expat-life-being-an-american-woman-in-thailand/ travel culture worldwide Sun, 12 Feb 2012 12:51:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Jack http://matadornetwork.com/abroad/tales-from-the-frontier-of-expat-life-being-an-american-woman-in-thailand/#comment-104109 Jack Fri, 10 Feb 2012 09:01:00 +0000 http://matadorabroad.com/?p=3778#comment-104109 I too live in Thailand, but Bangkok, not a small village.  You are describing life among teachers and in a small town.  I taught for a semester at a Thai public school and was glad to get out of there partly because of all the public corporal punishment I witnessed even though it was against both the law and school policy.  And with an average of 45 in a class I was wasting my time.  There was no feeling of accomplishment from it.  But I agree there was some inherent stuffiness, and traditional demure behavior there and I assume there is a lot more in smaller places.  Teachers didn't know what to do with me because I was older then they were and so they had to be more respectful than they where to other native speakers younger then they were.  It all kinda played out weirdly.  I also suspected that some of the older female teachers would have liked to know me better in ways that would have been improper.  And, since I lived close to the school, I was surprised to see 14, 15, and 16 yo female students hanging out around the neighborhood with much older men.  Your entire experience is simply incongruous  with life in Bangkok.  Girls dress super sexy in BK - but not teachers, I grant you.  People smile at me and we do have sex sometimes after meeting due to a smile.  That has happened three times.  Its amazing and it is why foreign men find Thailand  appealing.  Men in Thailand are rarely pedophiles and they don't have to be with prostitutes.  Thai women like foreign men.  They seem to like them at all ages and they like some tummy too.  Strange, but true!  Katherine if men in your village thought you might have sex with them just because you smile, then they are both right and also will not bother you when you say "NO!"  No seems to work here too.  Let me share a recent experience.  I am in my early 60s.  I am 167 cm and weight about 80 kgs.  I cut my hair very short because there are so many thin spots up there.  A few days ago I got off the SkyTrain and saw a beautiful, but young, girl.  It was late afternoon and she had no school uniform on which meant she was older than high school age since every school kid wears a uniform.  She was so cute I followed her toward an exit that was a little further for me.  I walked behind her and admired her attire and her, well,  her ass.  This girl looked sooo normal and nice I was just impressed.   I glanced at her very cute face as I went by.  She had smart eyes!  But went ahead of her and kept walking.  I basically forgot about her and had reached a quiet walkway over the sidewalk near a theater.  I was looking at a big display of movie poster when I almost fainted.  The same beautiful girl stepped up next to me and asked if I was going to a movie.  We talked about "War Horse" by Speilberg.  Woooow!  She literally hit on me.  I know I could have suggested that if she wanted to see the movie I would be glad to pay.  If the timing was right we could eat first or afterward - and who knows where that could have gone.  We were well on our way to a new friendship, if not to bed.  I was NOT in an area where there is any prostitution.   I did not take advantage of her initial approach because I had other places to go, but this is not unusual.  It simply isn't strange at all in Thailand.   If you consider this you will have new insight into why foreign men are with young women and why it seems odd that a foreign women has such a different experience.  It's the school experience and the experience in a smaller town that Katherine described.  If it is a man reading this when was the last time a woman of any age initiated a conversation with you in this way?  If you are a woman reader I ask the same.   It seems like we are all afraid of each other in America.  But Asia, and the whole world for that matter, is different.  It is quite amazing.  I too live in Thailand, but Bangkok, not a small village.  You are describing life among teachers and in a small town.  I taught for a semester at a Thai public school and was glad to get out of there partly because of all the public corporal punishment I witnessed even though it was against both the law and school policy.  And with an average of 45 in a class I was wasting my time.  There was no feeling of accomplishment from it.  But I agree there was some inherent stuffiness, and traditional demure behavior there and I assume there is a lot more in smaller places.  Teachers didn’t know what to do with me because I was older then they were and so they had to be more respectful than they where to other native speakers younger then they were.  It all kinda played out weirdly.  I also suspected that some of the older female teachers would have liked to know me better in ways that would have been improper.  And, since I lived close to the school, I was surprised to see 14, 15, and 16 yo female students hanging out around the neighborhood with much older men.  Your entire experience is simply incongruous  with life in Bangkok.  Girls dress super sexy in BK – but not teachers, I grant you.  People smile at me and we do have sex sometimes after meeting due to a smile.  That has happened three times.  Its amazing and it is why foreign men find Thailand  appealing.  Men in Thailand are rarely pedophiles and they don’t have to be with prostitutes.  Thai women like foreign men.  They seem to like them at all ages and they like some tummy too.  Strange, but true!  Katherine if men in your village thought you might have sex with them just because you smile, then they are both right and also will not bother you when you say “NO!”  No seems to work here too. 

Let me share a recent experience.  I am in my early 60s.  I am 167 cm and weight about 80 kgs.  I cut my hair very short because there are so many thin spots up there.  A few days ago I got off the SkyTrain and saw a beautiful, but young, girl.  It was late afternoon and she had no school uniform on which meant she was older than high school age since every school kid wears a uniform.  She was so cute I followed her toward an exit that was a little further for me.  I walked behind her and admired her attire and her, well,  her ass.  This girl looked sooo normal and nice I was just impressed.   I glanced at her very cute face as I went by.  She had smart eyes!  But went ahead of her and kept walking.  I basically forgot about her and had reached a quiet walkway over the sidewalk near a theater.  I was looking at a big display of movie poster when I almost fainted.  The same beautiful girl stepped up next to me and asked if I was going to a movie.  We talked about “War Horse” by Speilberg.  Woooow!  She literally hit on me.  I know I could have suggested that if she wanted to see the movie I would be glad to pay.  If the timing was right we could eat first or afterward – and who knows where that could have gone.  We were well on our way to a new friendship, if not to bed.  I was NOT in an area where there is any prostitution.   I did not take advantage of her initial approach because I had other places to go, but this is not unusual.  It simply isn’t strange at all in Thailand.   If you consider this you will have new insight into why foreign men are with young women and why it seems odd that a foreign women has such a different experience.  It’s the school experience and the experience in a smaller town that Katherine described.  If it is a man reading this when was the last time a woman of any age initiated a conversation with you in this way?  If you are a woman reader I ask the same.   It seems like we are all afraid of each other in America.  But Asia, and the whole world for that matter, is different.  It is quite amazing. 

]]> By: Johnxkane http://matadornetwork.com/abroad/tales-from-the-frontier-of-expat-life-being-an-american-woman-in-thailand/#comment-103212 Johnxkane Sun, 05 Feb 2012 05:07:00 +0000 http://matadorabroad.com/?p=3778#comment-103212 What an amazing story this is especially in contrast to other harsh appraisals of older foreign men who are with younger Thai women.  I live in Bangkok and women there are hot.  They dress hot.  College girls wear the shortest tight skirts imaginable - and that is their school uniform - with maybe 70% of their legs above the knees looking goood for me to see!  A Japanese magazine ranked Thai college students as having the sexiest uniforms.   If a foreign woman smiling or waving at a Thai man is considered to be an expression in interest in sex, what am I supposed to think?  I am a somewhat chubby, short American man in his early 60s and beautiful young women smile at me all the time. The only way I know it might have a sexual interest is the neighborhood I am in and even then I can't be sure.  I have been in a certain famous neighborhood and stopped women who smile at me and been in bed with them in less than 20 minutes.  Yes that is pretty good for  my ego!  In my own neighborhood, certainly one with no sex industry, I have had women smile at me and in 20 minutes I been offered their name and phone number, and had talk that was getting intimate.  It was clear these women could be my girlfriend.  I am curious if Bangkok is so different than other parts of Thailand.  Most of the "professional" women I have met come from outlying areas.  Here Katherine tells us a very conservative experience she experienced herself.  Other blogs attack the sexuality of Thailand.  Women who smile at me ARE interested in sex or at least in meeting me even though I am old and gray!  These two kinds of stories are sooo in conflict.  It certainly expresses the complexity of this subject.  But I have to run now my 22-years-younger-than-me Thai girlfriend is almost done cooking my lunch.  After lunch I think I will walk around my neighborhood smiling at every woman I see over 18 and under 50 and see what happens.  Maybe I will report to you another time.  ENJOY LIFE!   What an amazing story this is especially in contrast to other harsh appraisals of older foreign men who are with younger Thai women.  I live in Bangkok and women there are hot.  They dress hot.  College girls wear the shortest tight skirts imaginable – and that is their school uniform – with maybe 70% of their legs above the knees looking goood for me to see!  A Japanese magazine ranked Thai college students as having the sexiest uniforms.   If a foreign woman smiling or waving at a Thai man is considered to be an expression in interest in sex, what am I supposed to think?  I am a somewhat chubby, short American man in his early 60s and beautiful young women smile at me all the time. The only way I know it might have a sexual interest is the neighborhood I am in and even then I can’t be sure.  I have been in a certain famous neighborhood and stopped women who smile at me and been in bed with them in less than 20 minutes.  Yes that is pretty good for  my ego!  In my own neighborhood, certainly one with no sex industry, I have had women smile at me and in 20 minutes I been offered their name and phone number, and had talk that was getting intimate.  It was clear these women could be my girlfriend.  I am curious if Bangkok is so different than other parts of Thailand.  Most of the “professional” women I have met come from outlying areas.  Here Katherine tells us a very conservative experience she experienced herself.  Other blogs attack the sexuality of Thailand.  Women who smile at me ARE interested in sex or at least in meeting me even though I am old and gray!  These two kinds of stories are sooo in conflict.  It certainly expresses the complexity of this subject.  But I have to run now my 22-years-younger-than-me Thai girlfriend is almost done cooking my lunch.  After lunch I think I will walk around my neighborhood smiling at every woman I see over 18 and under 50 and see what happens.  Maybe I will report to you another time.  ENJOY LIFE!  

]]> By: LSE_Blade http://matadornetwork.com/abroad/tales-from-the-frontier-of-expat-life-being-an-american-woman-in-thailand/#comment-101686 LSE_Blade Fri, 20 Jan 2012 13:13:00 +0000 http://matadorabroad.com/?p=3778#comment-101686 Great article...  it sums up the double standards and hypocrisy of small town thai life very, very well... I spent 2  1/2 years teaching in a provincial town in the north, and also saw and experienced a lot of the attitudes that you describe. The first year I was there one girl brought a can of lager in 7-11. The locals knew (at times it seemed like they knew about every step we foreign girls made) and the witchier of the women labelled her an alcoholic, a tag that still stuck to her name a year after she'd left. After that she was always seen as a bad teacher, and the Thai teachers liked making the comparison between the good, young , kind South African teacher, versus the bad, alcoholic, strict, and much older English one.  In 2008 when I was attacked by a local man, some people in town suggested I'd deserved it. I was a single, western woman, and the perception many Thai women seem to have of us single westerners is that, since we have no bf we are either gagging for it or hellbent on 'stealing' theirs. Many Thai women also seem to think that, as females we must share the same aspiration - or should that be desperation, - to get hitched and live the kind of caring, sharing husband centred family life that many of them seem to dream of.At the time that the attack, and the stories that followed it happened, friends in Bangkok told me that I shouldn't worry about the gossip. The people creating it and passing it on were stupid, uneducated provincial people. The truth is that they were not. They were teachers, government officials, policemen's wifes, people who were, and still are thought of as being respectable members of their local community. Thai society has many levels, something people who visit as tourist rarely see or have to deal with. Behind the beautiful smiling faces, and super polite 'ka's and krup's'' lies a lot of jealously and maliciousness. Unfortunately, a lot of this is directed at western women.I can totally understand you choosing to keep your western male friends. I always found it easier to make male friends too. Being someone who liked current affairs, history and travelling I found many of my female colleagues hard to talk to. They had no interest in anything other than their (or other peoples) weight and appearance and there are only so many times that you can force yourself to look or sound interested in conversations about how much fatter someone has become, or how black another colleague does or doesn't look (note for anyone who has not lived in Thailand - this comment isn't meant to be racist..... Thais often make fun of each others skin colour. being black 'pew dam' in Thai is something urban Thais look down upon...) During my time there I tried hard to be polite and respectful to everyone I met but the only Thai women I ever managed to make friends with were those who, like me were considered outsiders and looked down upon, (or envied and gossiped about) by the dominant local group. Great article…  it sums up the double standards and hypocrisy of small town thai life very, very well… I spent 2  1/2 years teaching in a provincial town in the north, and also saw and experienced a lot of the attitudes that you describe. The first year I was there one girl brought a can of lager in 7-11. The locals knew (at times it seemed like they knew about every step we foreign girls made) and the witchier of the women labelled her an alcoholic, a tag that still stuck to her name a year after she’d left.
After that she was always seen as a bad teacher, and the Thai teachers liked making the comparison between the good, young , kind South African teacher, versus the bad, alcoholic, strict, and much older English one.  In 2008 when I was attacked by a local man, some people in town suggested I’d deserved it.
I was a single, western woman, and the perception many Thai women seem to have of us single westerners is that, since we have no bf we are either gagging for it or hellbent on ‘stealing’ theirs. Many Thai women also seem to think that, as females we must share the same aspiration – or should that be desperation, – to get hitched and live the kind of caring, sharing husband centred family life that many of them seem to dream of.At the time that the attack, and the stories that followed it happened, friends in Bangkok told me that I shouldn’t worry about the gossip. The people creating it and passing it on were stupid, uneducated provincial people. The truth is that they were not. They were teachers, government officials, policemen’s wifes, people who were, and still are thought of as being respectable members of their local community. Thai society has many levels, something people who visit as tourist rarely see or have to deal with. Behind the beautiful smiling faces, and super polite ‘ka’s and krup’s” lies a lot of jealously and maliciousness. Unfortunately, a lot of this is directed at western women.I can totally understand you choosing to keep your western male friends. I always found it easier to make male friends too. Being someone who liked current affairs, history and travelling I found many of my female colleagues hard to talk to. They had no interest in anything other than their (or other peoples) weight and appearance and there are only so many times that you can force yourself to look or sound interested in conversations about how much fatter someone has become, or how black another colleague does or doesn’t look (note for anyone who has not lived in Thailand – this comment isn’t meant to be racist….. Thais often make fun of each others skin colour. being black ‘pew dam’ in Thai is something urban Thais look down upon…) During my time there I tried hard to be polite and respectful to everyone I met but the only Thai women I ever managed to make friends with were those who, like me were considered outsiders and looked down upon, (or envied and gossiped about) by the dominant local group.

]]> By: donna morang http://matadornetwork.com/abroad/tales-from-the-frontier-of-expat-life-being-an-american-woman-in-thailand/#comment-38018 donna morang Mon, 12 Apr 2010 16:23:19 +0000 http://matadorabroad.com/?p=3778#comment-38018 Great article! Sorry to hear of your problems in Thailand, and from others around the world. Being a foreigner in any country can have its advantages and disadvantages. I have been teaching ESL for ten years and will share my secret to winning over the women in your community. I laugh with them, smile at them, and poke fun at myself to them ( they seem to love that ). I must confess I am an older woman but this never stops the men in most countries from the cat-calls, grasping at my body, the usual crap. I have found that laughing at them is a good way to stop further actions from them. Having a strange sense of humor has given me many laughs. My motto is; have fun and smile no matter what. Good luck. Great article! Sorry to hear of your problems in Thailand, and from others around the world. Being a foreigner in any country can have its advantages and disadvantages.
I have been teaching ESL for ten years and will share my secret to winning over the women in your community. I laugh with them, smile at them, and poke fun at myself to them ( they seem to love that ). I must confess I am an older woman but this never stops the men in most countries from the cat-calls, grasping at my body, the usual crap. I have found that laughing at them is a good way to stop further actions from them. Having a strange sense of humor has given me many laughs. My motto is; have fun and smile no matter what.
Good luck.

]]> By: katherine http://matadornetwork.com/abroad/tales-from-the-frontier-of-expat-life-being-an-american-woman-in-thailand/#comment-37824 katherine Fri, 09 Apr 2010 11:35:24 +0000 http://matadorabroad.com/?p=3778#comment-37824 Satine, Good luck in Africa!! Satine,
Good luck in Africa!!

]]> By: katherine http://matadornetwork.com/abroad/tales-from-the-frontier-of-expat-life-being-an-american-woman-in-thailand/#comment-37764 katherine Fri, 09 Apr 2010 11:27:13 +0000 http://matadorabroad.com/?p=3778#comment-37764 Turner, I've have had my kids call me fat before. I've heard them call other people fat. I don't think it's meant in a really malicious way. It's just them being really honest. I don't really understand that aspect. When it comes to conflict, they avoid it at all costs, but in this case they just throw the word fat around like it's not offensive to someone. I don't think I'll ever understand. However, I am aware that Thai culture is very beauty conscious. Turner,
I’ve have had my kids call me fat before. I’ve heard them call other people fat. I don’t think it’s meant in a really malicious way. It’s just them being really honest. I don’t really understand that aspect. When it comes to conflict, they avoid it at all costs, but in this case they just throw the word fat around like it’s not offensive to someone. I don’t think I’ll ever understand. However, I am aware that Thai culture is very beauty conscious.

]]> By: katherine http://matadornetwork.com/abroad/tales-from-the-frontier-of-expat-life-being-an-american-woman-in-thailand/#comment-37713 katherine Fri, 09 Apr 2010 11:24:29 +0000 http://matadorabroad.com/?p=3778#comment-37713 Jess, if you are headed to Bangkok, you can wear whatever you want. Now that I have gotten familiarized with the culture it makes me feel more like I belong to dress the way they do. It's a matter of respecting them, but i've found you also gain respect back. I'm heading to India next, in September. Can't wait. If you have any advice, I'll gladly receive it! Jess,
if you are headed to Bangkok, you can wear whatever you want. Now that I have gotten familiarized with the culture it makes me feel more like I belong to dress the way they do. It’s a matter of respecting them, but i’ve found you also gain respect back. I’m heading to India next, in September. Can’t wait. If you have any advice, I’ll gladly receive it!

]]> By: katherine http://matadornetwork.com/abroad/tales-from-the-frontier-of-expat-life-being-an-american-woman-in-thailand/#comment-37710 katherine Fri, 09 Apr 2010 11:21:59 +0000 http://matadorabroad.com/?p=3778#comment-37710 Heidi, I'm in Indonesia now. Amazing country from what I've seen so far! Heading to Borneo next week. I'm actually thinking of relocating to Indonesia. And the Philippines is definitely on my list! Heidi,
I’m in Indonesia now. Amazing country from what I’ve seen so far! Heading to Borneo next week. I’m actually thinking of relocating to Indonesia. And the Philippines is definitely on my list!

]]> By: katherine http://matadornetwork.com/abroad/tales-from-the-frontier-of-expat-life-being-an-american-woman-in-thailand/#comment-37916 katherine Fri, 09 Apr 2010 11:11:15 +0000 http://matadorabroad.com/?p=3778#comment-37916 Anne M, It's true. I was single and everyone knew it. Therefore, I became an object of attention and criticism. My roommate who taught at my school, had a boyfriend who taught at our school as well for the second semester, and she received less commentary than I did. Everyone knew they were together. Although, I know that the first semester, when she was there alone, she garnered just as much unwanted attention and criticism as I did this past semester. So, I suppose the answer is to employ a fake boyfriend. ;) Anne M,

It’s true. I was single and everyone knew it. Therefore, I became an object of attention and criticism. My roommate who taught at my school, had a boyfriend who taught at our school as well for the second semester, and she received less commentary than I did. Everyone knew they were together. Although, I know that the first semester, when she was there alone, she garnered just as much unwanted attention and criticism as I did this past semester. So, I suppose the answer is to employ a fake boyfriend. ;)

]]> By: bob marangelli http://matadornetwork.com/abroad/tales-from-the-frontier-of-expat-life-being-an-american-woman-in-thailand/#comment-37927 bob marangelli Tue, 06 Apr 2010 23:24:47 +0000 http://matadorabroad.com/?p=3778#comment-37927 having spent a year in thailand during the vietnam war in the city of korat,I learned that what the thai people consider their customs did in no way apply to americans,male or female. seeing that 90%of their women were hookers supporting their families by working as escorts for the night for a few american dollars,or in so called massage palors servicing the thai men. the food in thailand was outstanding but their customs generally sucked.(no pun intended. having spent a year in thailand during the vietnam war in the city of korat,I learned that what the thai people consider their customs did in no way apply to americans,male or female. seeing that 90%of their women were hookers supporting their families by working as escorts for the night for a few american dollars,or in so called massage palors servicing the thai men. the food in thailand was outstanding but their customs generally sucked.(no pun intended.

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