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	<title>Comments on: The expat conundrum: The longer you stay, the more you complain</title>
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	<link>http://matadornetwork.com/abroad/the-expat-conundrum-the-longer-you-stay-the-more-you-complain/</link>
	<description>travel culture worldwide</description>
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		<title>By: Ken Seeroi</title>
		<link>http://matadornetwork.com/abroad/the-expat-conundrum-the-longer-you-stay-the-more-you-complain/#comment-103748</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken Seeroi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Feb 2012 11:24:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://matadorabroad.com/?p=2349#comment-103748</guid>
		<description>Nice post.  I live in Japan as an expat American, and identify with Japanese people far more than I do Americans.  &quot;They,&quot; to me, refers to foreigners, not Japanese, like me.  The new me, that is.  But still, yeah, I&#039;ve got my bad days too.  Guess life just comes pre-equipped with stuff to complain about built in.  Anywhere you go, you&#039;re gonna have, you know, a certain percentage of poo thrown your way.

But one more thing.  Maybe the hardest thing is living with the knowledge that you could go back to your home country.  Sure, you&#039;d have to deal with other problems there, but you wouldn&#039;t have to deal with *this* (substitute for &quot;this&quot; whatever your current gripe happens to be).  Having choices isn&#039;t always good.  It&#039;s far too easy to glamorize what you used to have and think that if you went back to it that all your problems would disappear.  It&#039;s helpful to go back to your home country once in a while to remind yourself that, yeah, somethings things there suck too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice post.  I live in Japan as an expat American, and identify with Japanese people far more than I do Americans.  &#8220;They,&#8221; to me, refers to foreigners, not Japanese, like me.  The new me, that is.  But still, yeah, I&#8217;ve got my bad days too.  Guess life just comes pre-equipped with stuff to complain about built in.  Anywhere you go, you&#8217;re gonna have, you know, a certain percentage of poo thrown your way.</p>
<p>But one more thing.  Maybe the hardest thing is living with the knowledge that you could go back to your home country.  Sure, you&#8217;d have to deal with other problems there, but you wouldn&#8217;t have to deal with *this* (substitute for &#8220;this&#8221; whatever your current gripe happens to be).  Having choices isn&#8217;t always good.  It&#8217;s far too easy to glamorize what you used to have and think that if you went back to it that all your problems would disappear.  It&#8217;s helpful to go back to your home country once in a while to remind yourself that, yeah, somethings things there suck too.</p>
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		<title>By: Terri Lundberg</title>
		<link>http://matadornetwork.com/abroad/the-expat-conundrum-the-longer-you-stay-the-more-you-complain/#comment-90763</link>
		<dc:creator>Terri Lundberg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Sep 2011 07:01:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://matadorabroad.com/?p=2349#comment-90763</guid>
		<description>I think people just like to complain.  However, I also think, that there is so much that is better in the US (my home) and even though a person has chosen to move to a developing country, that doesn&#039;t mean the petty annoyances (and not so petty) won&#039;t get to them.  There&#039;s no need to analyze it,  some things are just better.  It&#039;s kinda like sitting in first class...once you do that, it&#039;s hard to go back to economy.  LOL :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think people just like to complain.  However, I also think, that there is so much that is better in the US (my home) and even though a person has chosen to move to a developing country, that doesn&#8217;t mean the petty annoyances (and not so petty) won&#8217;t get to them.  There&#8217;s no need to analyze it,  some things are just better.  It&#8217;s kinda like sitting in first class&#8230;once you do that, it&#8217;s hard to go back to economy.  LOL <img src='http://matadornetwork.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Immigration immunity &#171; expat+HAREM, the global niche</title>
		<link>http://matadornetwork.com/abroad/the-expat-conundrum-the-longer-you-stay-the-more-you-complain/#comment-39357</link>
		<dc:creator>Immigration immunity &#171; expat+HAREM, the global niche</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Aug 2010 05:08:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://matadorabroad.com/?p=2349#comment-39357</guid>
		<description>[...] are expats living for decades in a completely different culture while still retaining their racial and cultural disdain? Isn’t the world supposed to thrive and be more beautiful in it’s diversity than in it’s [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] are expats living for decades in a completely different culture while still retaining their racial and cultural disdain? Isn’t the world supposed to thrive and be more beautiful in it’s diversity than in it’s [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Ethan G. Salwen</title>
		<link>http://matadornetwork.com/abroad/the-expat-conundrum-the-longer-you-stay-the-more-you-complain/#comment-38228</link>
		<dc:creator>Ethan G. Salwen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 May 2010 22:30:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://matadorabroad.com/?p=2349#comment-38228</guid>
		<description>Someone sent me this great piece asking, &quot;Is this you?&quot; After living in Buenos Aires, Argentina, for four years, I replied, &quot;Absolutely!, and, Not Really.&quot; The scope of the great, thoughtful responses basically cover the points I would have made, but I will add:

I now talk about &quot;them&quot; and &quot;us&quot; in both English and Spanish in numerous ways depending on context, relating to multiple perspectives.

 I am pretty damn &quot;embedded,&quot; living with my Argentine girlfriend, spending much time with her family, doing more social activities with the locals than expats, and spending more time with long-term expats than with short-term tourists.

So sometimes the me/them is the relatively simple perspective of the &quot;guy from US talking about porteños (people of Buenos Aires) with other other expats.&quot; But more often than not, when I find myself talking about &quot;us,&quot; it is when I am referring to porteños among other porteños, although, of course, I still need to use &quot;us&quot; I am talking about my USA perspective.

In a typical conversation, say with a taxi driver, I will use both &quot;them&quot; and &quot;us,&quot; referring to the people of the US and &quot;us&quot; locals, respectively. And in such conversations, the distinction is always natural, just as a French expat in New York city might talk about the &quot;we&quot; of New Yorkers in contrast to people on the West Coast, but would also say &quot;we&quot; when talking about his native people back in France.

What&#039;s interesting is that the porteños were WAY ahead of me on all of this. For the first year of romance, when I could find not a single fault with the place, &quot;they&quot; thought I was pretty dense, promising, &quot;You&#039;ll see!&quot;

What they meant was that I would see all the faults in this very faulty place, and I would feel a bit silly for how rose-tinted my vision had been.

Well, now I do see, more than I&#039;d like quite often. While I once (contrary to guidebook advice) trusted every taxi cab driver I met not to stiff me, I know worry that almost everyone will -- even though my familiarity with the city proves that it&#039;s not happening.

To me this to me relates not so much to &quot;human nature&quot; that people are mentioning in these responses, but rather to the nature of living in a place as opposed to passing through, visit briefly or, instead, seeing the place as a part of the local community.

San Francisco was a lot more wonderful to me before I lived there for three years, but then, I never came to love San Francisco as I now love Buenos Aires, even though I now seem to loathe it in many ways as much as the &quot;natives&quot; do.

I think the best comparison is the experience of family: No one we can love and hate so much at the very same time, often for the very same reasons.

I haven&#039;t lived in any other country outside the USA, but porteños are notorious for their high degree of self-loathing and self-infatuation. So if after four years of living here, I wasn&#039;t both loving and loathing the city that I now call home, I wouldn&#039;t be one of &quot;them.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Someone sent me this great piece asking, &#8220;Is this you?&#8221; After living in Buenos Aires, Argentina, for four years, I replied, &#8220;Absolutely!, and, Not Really.&#8221; The scope of the great, thoughtful responses basically cover the points I would have made, but I will add:</p>
<p>I now talk about &#8220;them&#8221; and &#8220;us&#8221; in both English and Spanish in numerous ways depending on context, relating to multiple perspectives.</p>
<p> I am pretty damn &#8220;embedded,&#8221; living with my Argentine girlfriend, spending much time with her family, doing more social activities with the locals than expats, and spending more time with long-term expats than with short-term tourists.</p>
<p>So sometimes the me/them is the relatively simple perspective of the &#8220;guy from US talking about porteños (people of Buenos Aires) with other other expats.&#8221; But more often than not, when I find myself talking about &#8220;us,&#8221; it is when I am referring to porteños among other porteños, although, of course, I still need to use &#8220;us&#8221; I am talking about my USA perspective.</p>
<p>In a typical conversation, say with a taxi driver, I will use both &#8220;them&#8221; and &#8220;us,&#8221; referring to the people of the US and &#8220;us&#8221; locals, respectively. And in such conversations, the distinction is always natural, just as a French expat in New York city might talk about the &#8220;we&#8221; of New Yorkers in contrast to people on the West Coast, but would also say &#8220;we&#8221; when talking about his native people back in France.</p>
<p>What&#8217;s interesting is that the porteños were WAY ahead of me on all of this. For the first year of romance, when I could find not a single fault with the place, &#8220;they&#8221; thought I was pretty dense, promising, &#8220;You&#8217;ll see!&#8221;</p>
<p>What they meant was that I would see all the faults in this very faulty place, and I would feel a bit silly for how rose-tinted my vision had been.</p>
<p>Well, now I do see, more than I&#8217;d like quite often. While I once (contrary to guidebook advice) trusted every taxi cab driver I met not to stiff me, I know worry that almost everyone will &#8212; even though my familiarity with the city proves that it&#8217;s not happening.</p>
<p>To me this to me relates not so much to &#8220;human nature&#8221; that people are mentioning in these responses, but rather to the nature of living in a place as opposed to passing through, visit briefly or, instead, seeing the place as a part of the local community.</p>
<p>San Francisco was a lot more wonderful to me before I lived there for three years, but then, I never came to love San Francisco as I now love Buenos Aires, even though I now seem to loathe it in many ways as much as the &#8220;natives&#8221; do.</p>
<p>I think the best comparison is the experience of family: No one we can love and hate so much at the very same time, often for the very same reasons.</p>
<p>I haven&#8217;t lived in any other country outside the USA, but porteños are notorious for their high degree of self-loathing and self-infatuation. So if after four years of living here, I wasn&#8217;t both loving and loathing the city that I now call home, I wouldn&#8217;t be one of &#8220;them.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Kelsey</title>
		<link>http://matadornetwork.com/abroad/the-expat-conundrum-the-longer-you-stay-the-more-you-complain/#comment-38195</link>
		<dc:creator>Kelsey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 May 2010 04:24:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://matadorabroad.com/?p=2349#comment-38195</guid>
		<description>I think this is a good article, but you&#039;re also limiting the scope of your expats pretty severely.  The bulk of expats I have met in my travels abroad do not, in fact, fit any of the reasons for becoming an expat that you listed above (myself, a former expat, included).  Most of them were sent abroad by companies they worked for domestically.  Sure, it&#039;s exciting to be offered to go somewhere else, and the pay differential is usually beneficial, but most expats are not folks that would willingly move abroad unless it was in a situation like the one they have been provided with, where they can move their families and their belongings abroad, essentially relocating their life rather than recreating it.  And, there&#039;s nothing wrong with that, but you have to take that into consideration when judging them.  They moved abroad to work and live a relatively westernized life, and I think they&#039;re entitled to complain a little when things don&#039;t work out quite as well.  Are you telling me that you never complain about anything at home, either?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think this is a good article, but you&#8217;re also limiting the scope of your expats pretty severely.  The bulk of expats I have met in my travels abroad do not, in fact, fit any of the reasons for becoming an expat that you listed above (myself, a former expat, included).  Most of them were sent abroad by companies they worked for domestically.  Sure, it&#8217;s exciting to be offered to go somewhere else, and the pay differential is usually beneficial, but most expats are not folks that would willingly move abroad unless it was in a situation like the one they have been provided with, where they can move their families and their belongings abroad, essentially relocating their life rather than recreating it.  And, there&#8217;s nothing wrong with that, but you have to take that into consideration when judging them.  They moved abroad to work and live a relatively westernized life, and I think they&#8217;re entitled to complain a little when things don&#8217;t work out quite as well.  Are you telling me that you never complain about anything at home, either?</p>
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		<title>By: Tim</title>
		<link>http://matadornetwork.com/abroad/the-expat-conundrum-the-longer-you-stay-the-more-you-complain/#comment-38211</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 May 2010 13:36:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://matadorabroad.com/?p=2349#comment-38211</guid>
		<description>&gt; So why all the bitching? And why does it increase the longer one is away from home, when one should supposedly, be increasingly tolerant of cultural differences?

You honestly can&#039;t think of a single reason why someone would become more irritated the longer they are faced with things that irritate them? Patience wears thin. Sometimes cultural differences involve serious racial or sexual discrimination, being harmed or mugged and being manipulated or taken advantage of. Sometimes cultural differences involve slow service and lack of smiles. Where someone draws the line for their tolerance varies. Personally, I draw a line at female genital mutilation (FGM). However, even some female professors I&#039;ve had don&#039;t judge. Using euphemisms like female genital cutting and female genital modification for the barbarous act was their way to seem objective. Expecting people not to mutilate their daughters is a value judgment and reeks of imperialism, after all.

Why do you think expecting two specific things (to be greeted with a smile and getting coffee in three minutes or less) after moving to someplace with better weather, exchange rates, culture, nightlife, scenery or job prospects makes someone a hypocritical asshole?

Even if expats only moved to developing countries for the five general reasons you listed, only three subcategories of one could be considered mutually exclusive to the expectations; the laid-back pace of life, the challenge of another culture, the insanity of a big foreign city. 

PS. Wow, the commenting system is still like this? Tragic. Starting a subreddit http://www.reddit.com/search?q=matador would be easy if programming a competent commenting system is the problem.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt; So why all the bitching? And why does it increase the longer one is away from home, when one should supposedly, be increasingly tolerant of cultural differences?</p>
<p>You honestly can&#8217;t think of a single reason why someone would become more irritated the longer they are faced with things that irritate them? Patience wears thin. Sometimes cultural differences involve serious racial or sexual discrimination, being harmed or mugged and being manipulated or taken advantage of. Sometimes cultural differences involve slow service and lack of smiles. Where someone draws the line for their tolerance varies. Personally, I draw a line at female genital mutilation (FGM). However, even some female professors I&#8217;ve had don&#8217;t judge. Using euphemisms like female genital cutting and female genital modification for the barbarous act was their way to seem objective. Expecting people not to mutilate their daughters is a value judgment and reeks of imperialism, after all.</p>
<p>Why do you think expecting two specific things (to be greeted with a smile and getting coffee in three minutes or less) after moving to someplace with better weather, exchange rates, culture, nightlife, scenery or job prospects makes someone a hypocritical asshole?</p>
<p>Even if expats only moved to developing countries for the five general reasons you listed, only three subcategories of one could be considered mutually exclusive to the expectations; the laid-back pace of life, the challenge of another culture, the insanity of a big foreign city. </p>
<p>PS. Wow, the commenting system is still like this? Tragic. Starting a subreddit <a href="http://www.reddit.com/search?q=matador" rel="nofollow">http://www.reddit.com/search?q=matador</a> would be easy if programming a competent commenting system is the problem.</p>
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		<title>By: TimR</title>
		<link>http://matadornetwork.com/abroad/the-expat-conundrum-the-longer-you-stay-the-more-you-complain/#comment-38202</link>
		<dc:creator>TimR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 May 2010 19:57:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://matadorabroad.com/?p=2349#comment-38202</guid>
		<description>I too think it&#039;s just part of the Western mindset (and other cultures, for that matter).  Think about it.  This article is complaining about complaining!!!  We just can&#039;t help it I guess.  It&#039;s a mindset of entitlement, and the consequences of not getting what TV, parents, etc. conditioned us to expect and believe we deserve, be it Nintendo or an expat lifestyle.  It&#039;s going to be a slow burn down to the reality that the we can&#039;t keep up the old consumption lifestyle.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I too think it&#8217;s just part of the Western mindset (and other cultures, for that matter).  Think about it.  This article is complaining about complaining!!!  We just can&#8217;t help it I guess.  It&#8217;s a mindset of entitlement, and the consequences of not getting what TV, parents, etc. conditioned us to expect and believe we deserve, be it Nintendo or an expat lifestyle.  It&#8217;s going to be a slow burn down to the reality that the we can&#8217;t keep up the old consumption lifestyle.</p>
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		<title>By: Rosalie</title>
		<link>http://matadornetwork.com/abroad/the-expat-conundrum-the-longer-you-stay-the-more-you-complain/#comment-38177</link>
		<dc:creator>Rosalie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Apr 2010 07:34:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://matadorabroad.com/?p=2349#comment-38177</guid>
		<description>Really interesting article! I&#039;m working in a school in China, and many of the expat teachers do end up falling into a negative mentality about living here. Ultimately, I don&#039;t think this reaction to a foreign place is a uniquely Western or expat habit. The Chinese teachers at my school who are from a different city in China often end up having similar feelings as the foreign teachers. It seems like it&#039;s human nature to idealize aspects of our past, such as where we come from, and the further something is in the past, the more perfect it seems. This can happen at the expense of our present, and maybe helps to explain why increased complaining correlates with time away from our home and distance from our past.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Really interesting article! I&#8217;m working in a school in China, and many of the expat teachers do end up falling into a negative mentality about living here. Ultimately, I don&#8217;t think this reaction to a foreign place is a uniquely Western or expat habit. The Chinese teachers at my school who are from a different city in China often end up having similar feelings as the foreign teachers. It seems like it&#8217;s human nature to idealize aspects of our past, such as where we come from, and the further something is in the past, the more perfect it seems. This can happen at the expense of our present, and maybe helps to explain why increased complaining correlates with time away from our home and distance from our past.</p>
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		<title>By: Kate</title>
		<link>http://matadornetwork.com/abroad/the-expat-conundrum-the-longer-you-stay-the-more-you-complain/#comment-38131</link>
		<dc:creator>Kate</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Apr 2010 04:33:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://matadorabroad.com/?p=2349#comment-38131</guid>
		<description>Great piece!  And I just want to contribute as an expat living in Korea, which is by no means a developing country, the same attitudes befall us too.  I have and see the same problems of becoming entitled and condescending over time, not because Korea is not as developed as home, but just because there are still cultural differences.  It&#039;s so easy to project day-to-day frustrations until they become a cultural problem, blaming one person&#039;s rudeness or bad behavior on &quot;them.&quot;  Anyway, awesome article!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great piece!  And I just want to contribute as an expat living in Korea, which is by no means a developing country, the same attitudes befall us too.  I have and see the same problems of becoming entitled and condescending over time, not because Korea is not as developed as home, but just because there are still cultural differences.  It&#8217;s so easy to project day-to-day frustrations until they become a cultural problem, blaming one person&#8217;s rudeness or bad behavior on &#8220;them.&#8221;  Anyway, awesome article!</p>
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		<title>By: Rosie</title>
		<link>http://matadornetwork.com/abroad/the-expat-conundrum-the-longer-you-stay-the-more-you-complain/#comment-38139</link>
		<dc:creator>Rosie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Apr 2010 15:12:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://matadorabroad.com/?p=2349#comment-38139</guid>
		<description>Am I the expat with a difference? Three years ago my partner &amp; I moved here to northern Spain. We are in a rural farming community which has high unemployment &amp; severe poverty - it´s like a third worlc country. I love it and can honestly say i have no regrets about moving here. I have never whinged &amp; (hand on heart) don´t miss anything of my so called normal life back in England. people tell me that surely i must miss baked beans English TV! No I don´t........
I have no negatives. I only have positives......</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Am I the expat with a difference? Three years ago my partner &amp; I moved here to northern Spain. We are in a rural farming community which has high unemployment &amp; severe poverty &#8211; it´s like a third worlc country. I love it and can honestly say i have no regrets about moving here. I have never whinged &amp; (hand on heart) don´t miss anything of my so called normal life back in England. people tell me that surely i must miss baked beans English TV! No I don´t&#8230;&#8230;..<br />
I have no negatives. I only have positives&#8230;&#8230;</p>
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