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	<title>Comments on: Travel is for idiotic idealists: 3 Americans held in Iran</title>
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	<description>travel culture worldwide</description>
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		<title>By: Sonja</title>
		<link>http://matadornetwork.com/abroad/travel-is-for-idiotic-idealists-three-americans-held-in-iran/#comment-88513</link>
		<dc:creator>Sonja</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Aug 2011 18:19:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://matadorabroad.com/?p=1655#comment-88513</guid>
		<description>This article is full of misrepresentations. People saying the hikers were stupid doesn&#039;t equate to saying travel outside the US or to Western Europe is the same, what a jump! First of all, two of these &#039;hikers&#039; are anti-Israel, lived in Syria and write pro-Syrian/anti Israeli pieces.  One was researching his own background in Iraq. For any of them to be dumb enough to not know the consequences of straying into Iran is preposterous (going beyond the waterfall, which no one ever does, and they knew this!).  For the one left behind to say that they &#039; had NO IDEA&#039; they were on the border of Iran is incredulous. So for all the &#039;experienced travelers and journalist&#039;s &#039; accolades you give them here, they were either really  clueless or actually are spies, or thought it was cute to try it. 
I have been to Kurdistan on the border with Iran and looked over wishing I could go, same with Albania in 1990. Believe me, you know exactly where you are and if you&#039;re smart, you don&#039;t take chances. I traveled as a a tall blonde female photographer, alone, and that was risky enough, so I cant be accused of thinking Disney World is much more fun. I think the suspicion and a little bit of disbelief of these hikers is justified. Its like the guy who went to speak boo-boo, coochy cooch to Alaskan Grizzly bears and got himself and his girlfriend eaten,  no accounting for total stupidity, not just a little bit of it. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This article is full of misrepresentations. People saying the hikers were stupid doesn&#8217;t equate to saying travel outside the US or to Western Europe is the same, what a jump! First of all, two of these &#8216;hikers&#8217; are anti-Israel, lived in Syria and write pro-Syrian/anti Israeli pieces.  One was researching his own background in Iraq. For any of them to be dumb enough to not know the consequences of straying into Iran is preposterous (going beyond the waterfall, which no one ever does, and they knew this!).  For the one left behind to say that they &#8216; had NO IDEA&#8217; they were on the border of Iran is incredulous. So for all the &#8216;experienced travelers and journalist&#8217;s &#8216; accolades you give them here, they were either really  clueless or actually are spies, or thought it was cute to try it. <br />
I have been to Kurdistan on the border with Iran and looked over wishing I could go, same with Albania in 1990. Believe me, you know exactly where you are and if you&#8217;re smart, you don&#8217;t take chances. I traveled as a a tall blonde female photographer, alone, and that was risky enough, so I cant be accused of thinking Disney World is much more fun. I think the suspicion and a little bit of disbelief of these hikers is justified. Its like the guy who went to speak boo-boo, coochy cooch to Alaskan Grizzly bears and got himself and his girlfriend eaten,  no accounting for total stupidity, not just a little bit of it. </p>
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		<title>By: Iranian Misadventures, part 2 &#171; We&#39;re Lost and Everything is Dirty</title>
		<link>http://matadornetwork.com/abroad/travel-is-for-idiotic-idealists-three-americans-held-in-iran/#comment-37733</link>
		<dc:creator>Iranian Misadventures, part 2 &#171; We&#39;re Lost and Everything is Dirty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Mar 2010 11:18:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://matadorabroad.com/?p=1655#comment-37733</guid>
		<description>[...] Menkedick wrote this article about the American hikers in Iran and the insane amount of rage the internet is throwing at them. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Menkedick wrote this article about the American hikers in Iran and the insane amount of rage the internet is throwing at them. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Carlo</title>
		<link>http://matadornetwork.com/abroad/travel-is-for-idiotic-idealists-three-americans-held-in-iran/#comment-35243</link>
		<dc:creator>Carlo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Aug 2009 07:18:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://matadorabroad.com/?p=1655#comment-35243</guid>
		<description>Haha. OK. I can do iced coffee. Especially Vietnamese iced coffee. Mmmm.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Haha. OK. I can do iced coffee. Especially Vietnamese iced coffee. Mmmm.</p>
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		<title>By: Ryukyu Mike</title>
		<link>http://matadornetwork.com/abroad/travel-is-for-idiotic-idealists-three-americans-held-in-iran/#comment-35242</link>
		<dc:creator>Ryukyu Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Aug 2009 06:57:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://matadorabroad.com/?p=1655#comment-35242</guid>
		<description>Carlo,
Couple a beers! That usually leads to a couple more beers. And way back in my younger days, more jail time. I&#039;m Irish; we drink until the planet leaves our feet.  Let&#039;s just do some iced coffee !</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Carlo,<br />
Couple a beers! That usually leads to a couple more beers. And way back in my younger days, more jail time. I&#8217;m Irish; we drink until the planet leaves our feet.  Let&#8217;s just do some iced coffee !</p>
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		<title>By: Carlo</title>
		<link>http://matadornetwork.com/abroad/travel-is-for-idiotic-idealists-three-americans-held-in-iran/#comment-35241</link>
		<dc:creator>Carlo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Aug 2009 06:32:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://matadorabroad.com/?p=1655#comment-35241</guid>
		<description>Wow. Mike, we need to sit down over a couple of beers I think so you can finish that story.

Very good point, not one that that has been considered.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow. Mike, we need to sit down over a couple of beers I think so you can finish that story.</p>
<p>Very good point, not one that that has been considered.</p>
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		<title>By: Ryukyu Mike</title>
		<link>http://matadornetwork.com/abroad/travel-is-for-idiotic-idealists-three-americans-held-in-iran/#comment-35240</link>
		<dc:creator>Ryukyu Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Aug 2009 06:22:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://matadorabroad.com/?p=1655#comment-35240</guid>
		<description>Sarah,
Another well-written, interesting post. It generated some interesting comments and inspired me to put my two cents in, at the risk of pissing-off a few folks at Matador. 
Sarah Shourd, Joshua Fattal and Shane Bauer made a big mistake. We probably all have, or will sometime in our lives.. I&#039;ve done a bunch of them. I wish their families and them the best of luck
A long, long time ago I was in a serious jam, right here in Okinawa. An elderly gent who reminded me of Mr. Miyagi (Karate Kid) was employed to help me. Quietly, behind the scenes, he got cronies, from all walks of life to work their magic.
Everything was going well. Evidence disappeared, people made the impossible happen for me; I was about to get off the hook!

Then some nosey, noisy Americans got involved.  Mr. Miyagi said,&quot;They don&#039;t know what they&#039;re doing.  They wake up sleeping tiger&quot;. He was right.
The sleeping tiger woke up and got me, Miyagi and all his cronies.

I am seriously concerned about the welfare of the three writers  and hope everyone at Matador is wishing for their safe return. They are in a cage with a sleeping tiger. It&#039;s probably best we don&#039;t make too much noise and wake the tiger up.

Quietly, give your support to those who work secretly in the background, in Iran, my friends or those three writers are screwed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sarah,<br />
Another well-written, interesting post. It generated some interesting comments and inspired me to put my two cents in, at the risk of pissing-off a few folks at Matador.<br />
Sarah Shourd, Joshua Fattal and Shane Bauer made a big mistake. We probably all have, or will sometime in our lives.. I&#8217;ve done a bunch of them. I wish their families and them the best of luck<br />
A long, long time ago I was in a serious jam, right here in Okinawa. An elderly gent who reminded me of Mr. Miyagi (Karate Kid) was employed to help me. Quietly, behind the scenes, he got cronies, from all walks of life to work their magic.<br />
Everything was going well. Evidence disappeared, people made the impossible happen for me; I was about to get off the hook!</p>
<p>Then some nosey, noisy Americans got involved.  Mr. Miyagi said,&#8221;They don&#8217;t know what they&#8217;re doing.  They wake up sleeping tiger&#8221;. He was right.<br />
The sleeping tiger woke up and got me, Miyagi and all his cronies.</p>
<p>I am seriously concerned about the welfare of the three writers  and hope everyone at Matador is wishing for their safe return. They are in a cage with a sleeping tiger. It&#8217;s probably best we don&#8217;t make too much noise and wake the tiger up.</p>
<p>Quietly, give your support to those who work secretly in the background, in Iran, my friends or those three writers are screwed.</p>
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		<title>By: Wanderlusting</title>
		<link>http://matadornetwork.com/abroad/travel-is-for-idiotic-idealists-three-americans-held-in-iran/#comment-35543</link>
		<dc:creator>Wanderlusting</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Aug 2009 20:02:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://matadorabroad.com/?p=1655#comment-35543</guid>
		<description>Sarah, you have a great article but don&#039;t crucify me for saying that don&#039;t agree with all of it - I have to say I agree with Steve (above). These people took a risk and are now paying for it. If I was in the same situation, I wouldn&#039;t be suprised at the outcome.

I&#039;m a traveler - not a dopey, liberal backpacker. Even if I were the latter, I wouldn&#039;t put myself in harm&#039;s way without paying for the consequences. 

I am sure the backpackers knew exactly what they were doing and I am sure once they get out they will tell you they deserved it. I don&#039;t think they should be left to rot as some suggest, and I certainly don&#039;t think they are stupid - but one can hardly be outraged at what is happening. I also am not losing sleep over it.

What I don&#039;t like though, is how it seems everything is so black and white: you are either against them, bleating away on ABC or you are 100% behind them. I&#039;m not against them but I&#039;m not behind them either. I believe people should stretch their legs and go beyond the call of Western Europe but I think there is a huge difference between that and hiking in a uneasy Middle Eastern country.

That said, what I really wish the news would do is stop portraying them as &quot;hikers&quot; or &quot;backpackers&quot; - I bet if off the bat they had described them as journalists, then all this backlash wouldn&#039;t have happened in the first place.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sarah, you have a great article but don&#8217;t crucify me for saying that don&#8217;t agree with all of it &#8211; I have to say I agree with Steve (above). These people took a risk and are now paying for it. If I was in the same situation, I wouldn&#8217;t be suprised at the outcome.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m a traveler &#8211; not a dopey, liberal backpacker. Even if I were the latter, I wouldn&#8217;t put myself in harm&#8217;s way without paying for the consequences. </p>
<p>I am sure the backpackers knew exactly what they were doing and I am sure once they get out they will tell you they deserved it. I don&#8217;t think they should be left to rot as some suggest, and I certainly don&#8217;t think they are stupid &#8211; but one can hardly be outraged at what is happening. I also am not losing sleep over it.</p>
<p>What I don&#8217;t like though, is how it seems everything is so black and white: you are either against them, bleating away on ABC or you are 100% behind them. I&#8217;m not against them but I&#8217;m not behind them either. I believe people should stretch their legs and go beyond the call of Western Europe but I think there is a huge difference between that and hiking in a uneasy Middle Eastern country.</p>
<p>That said, what I really wish the news would do is stop portraying them as &#8220;hikers&#8221; or &#8220;backpackers&#8221; &#8211; I bet if off the bat they had described them as journalists, then all this backlash wouldn&#8217;t have happened in the first place.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve</title>
		<link>http://matadornetwork.com/abroad/travel-is-for-idiotic-idealists-three-americans-held-in-iran/#comment-35542</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Aug 2009 13:54:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://matadorabroad.com/?p=1655#comment-35542</guid>
		<description>Please.
I understand, someone has perhaps tread on (near) your sacred cow and it&#039;s very cathartic to get all jazzed up about it.  But don&#039;t you recognize that you&#039;re making the PRECISE generalization that you&#039;re excoriating &#039;people&#039; for making?

There is a HUGE difference between backpacking on the Iranian border in a war zone, and &#039;...that travel (outside of the U.S and perhaps Western Europe) is dangerous, reckless, and stupid.&#039;  That&#039;s just sloppy emotionalist exaggeration. 

&quot;This is what Sarah Shourd did with her articles on Yemen and Israel; she took risks and put herself in uncomfortable, unfamiliar situations and came out with stories that stick with the reader long after he/she has finished the last sentence.&quot;
You&#039;re absolutely right.  She took risks.  Period, full stop.  The word risk has meaning, it&#039;s not just there for decoration.  The reason we get a frisson of adrenaline walking near the edge of a cliff is because it&#039;s a risk.   If we accept that risk (of falling off) because there might be a beautiful view that nobody&#039;s ever seen before, we - as independent, intelligent adults - CHOOSE to trade the small chance of mortal peril in the hopes of gratification.  That&#039;s our choice.  But then, if we go slip sliding over the edge, it&#039;s not a tragedy, it&#039;s a choice we made.  Sometimes the dice are against you.  We can feel a basic human sympathy for people in suffering, but when they DELIBERATELY PUT THEMSELVES IN A POSITION TO SUFFER...well, ultimately it&#039;s their problem.  Thanks Darwin.

What &#039;people&#039; are commenting on is the absurdity of people choosing to take a very high risk, and then being surprised when it turns against them, and the ridiculous efforts extended by the US gov&#039;t to &#039;rescue&#039; them from a situation of their own choosing.  It&#039;s kind of like Siegfried and Roy - the dudes played with TIGERS.  The fact that ultimately one of them got chewed was a) unsurprising, b) not worthy of more than simple sympathy, and c) certainly not worth the intervention of the US gov&#039;t to save him.  

There are oodles of interesting places to backpack in this world that aren&#039;t in a war zone, and even if you felt compelled to backpack in Iraq, there&#039;s lots of interesting bits of Iraq that aren&#039;t near Iran.  (And deliberate disingenuity doesn&#039;t help your point.  North Kurdistan is a resort area, lol.  That&#039;s hilarious.  I&#039;ll have to recommend that to my grandparents when they take to the motor home next summer.)  To have deliberately chosen such a place, and particularly with their extensive backgrounds and knowledge - they were no novices, as you point out - was a clear choice.  Personally, I do think it&#039;s a little disrespectful to assume their choice was out of a cavalier disregard for the danger.  They were professionals pursuing (I&#039;d guess) their chosen occupations.  Respect them for that, but aside from their employers who might have a moral obligation to try to beg them free, I feel no compunction about forgetting them and moving on to the next news item of the day.  If they do get out, I&#039;ll avidly read their story...because that&#039;s why they took the risk (presumably).  But I&#039;m certainly not going to lose sleep over their fates.

The reason that they are being referred to as kids is because this sort of risk-taking behavior is very common to youth; be it because they either disregard the actual risks, or accept the risks because of a narcissistic belief in their ability to control events.  Their biographies suggest to me too that they got a little cocky, but I&#039;m not really invested enough in their outcomes to care.  Of course, it&#039;s not always youth: just google Pippi Bacca (30?) and how this hiker - &quot;(who) wanted to show that she could put her trust in the kindness of local people&quot; ended up. 

To answer your specific question, &#039;what if she&#039;d been abducted in Yemen?&#039; - well, having been in Yemen myself extensively, I&#039;d say it was because she stupidly ignored the long historical and cultural history of most of Yemen, which is a violent, godforsaken place with a brutal culture (especially toward women and girls).  There are Yemenis I consider my close friends, both in Aden (mostly) but a few from the area of Jibla.  There are some amazing things to see, eat, and do there.  But I wouldn&#039;t call it safe.

So no, to contradict your title - travel isn&#039;t just for &#039;idiotic idealists&#039;.  But ultimately, Darwin rules.  Don&#039;t be surprised if he bitch-slaps you for naive choices.  And don&#039;t be faux-shocked if the rest of us, who chose not to take such risks, aren&#039;t terribly sad about the result.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Please.<br />
I understand, someone has perhaps tread on (near) your sacred cow and it&#8217;s very cathartic to get all jazzed up about it.  But don&#8217;t you recognize that you&#8217;re making the PRECISE generalization that you&#8217;re excoriating &#8216;people&#8217; for making?</p>
<p>There is a HUGE difference between backpacking on the Iranian border in a war zone, and &#8216;&#8230;that travel (outside of the U.S and perhaps Western Europe) is dangerous, reckless, and stupid.&#8217;  That&#8217;s just sloppy emotionalist exaggeration. </p>
<p>&#8220;This is what Sarah Shourd did with her articles on Yemen and Israel; she took risks and put herself in uncomfortable, unfamiliar situations and came out with stories that stick with the reader long after he/she has finished the last sentence.&#8221;<br />
You&#8217;re absolutely right.  She took risks.  Period, full stop.  The word risk has meaning, it&#8217;s not just there for decoration.  The reason we get a frisson of adrenaline walking near the edge of a cliff is because it&#8217;s a risk.   If we accept that risk (of falling off) because there might be a beautiful view that nobody&#8217;s ever seen before, we &#8211; as independent, intelligent adults &#8211; CHOOSE to trade the small chance of mortal peril in the hopes of gratification.  That&#8217;s our choice.  But then, if we go slip sliding over the edge, it&#8217;s not a tragedy, it&#8217;s a choice we made.  Sometimes the dice are against you.  We can feel a basic human sympathy for people in suffering, but when they DELIBERATELY PUT THEMSELVES IN A POSITION TO SUFFER&#8230;well, ultimately it&#8217;s their problem.  Thanks Darwin.</p>
<p>What &#8216;people&#8217; are commenting on is the absurdity of people choosing to take a very high risk, and then being surprised when it turns against them, and the ridiculous efforts extended by the US gov&#8217;t to &#8216;rescue&#8217; them from a situation of their own choosing.  It&#8217;s kind of like Siegfried and Roy &#8211; the dudes played with TIGERS.  The fact that ultimately one of them got chewed was a) unsurprising, b) not worthy of more than simple sympathy, and c) certainly not worth the intervention of the US gov&#8217;t to save him.  </p>
<p>There are oodles of interesting places to backpack in this world that aren&#8217;t in a war zone, and even if you felt compelled to backpack in Iraq, there&#8217;s lots of interesting bits of Iraq that aren&#8217;t near Iran.  (And deliberate disingenuity doesn&#8217;t help your point.  North Kurdistan is a resort area, lol.  That&#8217;s hilarious.  I&#8217;ll have to recommend that to my grandparents when they take to the motor home next summer.)  To have deliberately chosen such a place, and particularly with their extensive backgrounds and knowledge &#8211; they were no novices, as you point out &#8211; was a clear choice.  Personally, I do think it&#8217;s a little disrespectful to assume their choice was out of a cavalier disregard for the danger.  They were professionals pursuing (I&#8217;d guess) their chosen occupations.  Respect them for that, but aside from their employers who might have a moral obligation to try to beg them free, I feel no compunction about forgetting them and moving on to the next news item of the day.  If they do get out, I&#8217;ll avidly read their story&#8230;because that&#8217;s why they took the risk (presumably).  But I&#8217;m certainly not going to lose sleep over their fates.</p>
<p>The reason that they are being referred to as kids is because this sort of risk-taking behavior is very common to youth; be it because they either disregard the actual risks, or accept the risks because of a narcissistic belief in their ability to control events.  Their biographies suggest to me too that they got a little cocky, but I&#8217;m not really invested enough in their outcomes to care.  Of course, it&#8217;s not always youth: just google Pippi Bacca (30?) and how this hiker &#8211; &#8220;(who) wanted to show that she could put her trust in the kindness of local people&#8221; ended up. </p>
<p>To answer your specific question, &#8216;what if she&#8217;d been abducted in Yemen?&#8217; &#8211; well, having been in Yemen myself extensively, I&#8217;d say it was because she stupidly ignored the long historical and cultural history of most of Yemen, which is a violent, godforsaken place with a brutal culture (especially toward women and girls).  There are Yemenis I consider my close friends, both in Aden (mostly) but a few from the area of Jibla.  There are some amazing things to see, eat, and do there.  But I wouldn&#8217;t call it safe.</p>
<p>So no, to contradict your title &#8211; travel isn&#8217;t just for &#8216;idiotic idealists&#8217;.  But ultimately, Darwin rules.  Don&#8217;t be surprised if he bitch-slaps you for naive choices.  And don&#8217;t be faux-shocked if the rest of us, who chose not to take such risks, aren&#8217;t terribly sad about the result.</p>
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		<title>By: Bo</title>
		<link>http://matadornetwork.com/abroad/travel-is-for-idiotic-idealists-three-americans-held-in-iran/#comment-35539</link>
		<dc:creator>Bo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Aug 2009 09:36:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://matadorabroad.com/?p=1655#comment-35539</guid>
		<description>I am with you 100% on this article. Very well written Sarah.
It seems to be the common paradigm (at least from an American viewpoint), especially in these cases, that traveling is dangerous and irresponsible, and whatever happens to the naive traveler serves them right. 
I still can&#039;t understand the contempt expressed for these 3 travelers. Being verbally attacked and stereotyped by people they don&#039;t even know, who have just read a paragraph story from their most trusted news source, and now feel they are entitled to a valuable opinion on the issue?
Again though, like you said, I&#039;m not intending to downplay the gravity of the situation, because no one really knows all the details as of yet.
But it still saddens me to see all the condescending, name calling, and ill wishers on the subject of travelers in general.
Most people are well and excited when you&#039;ve returned from afar with stories and pictures from a recent adventure, and more than happy to live vicariously through your experiences...but the moment you do something that lands you in a tough spot... they are quick to say, &quot;I told you so.&quot;
I&#039;m just so glad to have found a community like Matador!
Thanks for sharing this great article :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am with you 100% on this article. Very well written Sarah.<br />
It seems to be the common paradigm (at least from an American viewpoint), especially in these cases, that traveling is dangerous and irresponsible, and whatever happens to the naive traveler serves them right.<br />
I still can&#8217;t understand the contempt expressed for these 3 travelers. Being verbally attacked and stereotyped by people they don&#8217;t even know, who have just read a paragraph story from their most trusted news source, and now feel they are entitled to a valuable opinion on the issue?<br />
Again though, like you said, I&#8217;m not intending to downplay the gravity of the situation, because no one really knows all the details as of yet.<br />
But it still saddens me to see all the condescending, name calling, and ill wishers on the subject of travelers in general.<br />
Most people are well and excited when you&#8217;ve returned from afar with stories and pictures from a recent adventure, and more than happy to live vicariously through your experiences&#8230;but the moment you do something that lands you in a tough spot&#8230; they are quick to say, &#8220;I told you so.&#8221;<br />
I&#8217;m just so glad to have found a community like Matador!<br />
Thanks for sharing this great article <img src='http://matadornetwork.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Michael</title>
		<link>http://matadornetwork.com/abroad/travel-is-for-idiotic-idealists-three-americans-held-in-iran/#comment-35182</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Aug 2009 14:11:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://matadorabroad.com/?p=1655#comment-35182</guid>
		<description>Based on your your response to dissent from your views, if you want to see smugness please look in a mirror.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Based on your your response to dissent from your views, if you want to see smugness please look in a mirror.</p>
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